Swing Big – You Can't Iterate Your Way to Advertising Greatness With Darren D'Altorio From Wpromote

Evan Lee: Hello, hello.

Darren D'Altorio: Hello, hello.

Evan Lee: Darren, welcome to the party.

Darren D'Altorio: Thanks, man. Dude, it's so good to see you and very excited to be here.

Evan Lee: Oh, I'm so excited. How how how's life? How's life on your end?

Darren D'Altorio: Dude, we're doing great. Everything is going well. It's a lovely day here in Los Angeles. And it's awesome to hear that there's so many people tuned in from around the world. So, good afternoon, good morning, good night. It's an honor to be here with you. Uh, thank you so much for spending your day with Motion and all of us. The presentations have been incredible.

Evan Lee: The community is strong. And everybody, uh, if you don't know Darren, Darren is someone that I deeply respect. Like when he speaks, I have to listen. That's just kind of how it goes. He's a self-proclaimed analog boy in a digital world. He's been a bartender, a journalist, and a digital content producer. Now, he's the VP of Social Media at Wpromote, where he helps shape teams, paid social strategies, and the way we really share our experiences online. So everybody, get into the chat. Let's show him some love. Make it happen. Make it happen. Darren, welcome to the party.

Darren D'Altorio: Heck yes. Happy to be here. Um, yeah, I know we're going to kick off with some polls. Uh, and the first one was actually just who's in attendance today from a, you know, job title standpoint.

Darren D'Altorio: So that was a poll that you guys had, and I think it's really interesting to see the role breakdown, um, because we're covering a lot of ground here, right? From finance to strategy to media buying. So there's a lot of really interesting cross-pollination of disciplines here. Um, so it's really cool to see how many diverse, uh, roles we have in the house. Uh, but there's a couple more polls we want to kind of kick off with and lead in with just to, uh, set the tone.

Evan Lee: Yeah, so the second one that we want to get to here is how would you describe the current state of your organization's creative process?

Evan Lee: You have three options there. Again, this is an open and honest space. We're all here to be better. So let's fill it out with as much honesty as we can, everybody.

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so we'll see in real time. Um, folks are feeling really confident. A lot of people stressing out. It's Q4 right now too. So there's definitely a mounting feeling of stress, uh, with getting what we need in the account. Um, and then yeah, you know, a fair percentage here, 21% are feeling like they really need some help. So that's awesome you guys are being vulnerable, uh, with the poll and just, you know, we're here to help. And I think there's been a ton of actionable insight and we're going to try to bring that in this session too. Uh, next quick poll just to set the stage here is our creative test and learn methodology moves our business forward.

Darren D'Altorio: We're keeping this one very simple. True or false? You guys feel like at base level, how you are incorporating testing frameworks into your business practice is moving your business forward. You're finding growth, you're finding scale. Awesome. Really happy to see a strong percentage here of confidence that people feel the business is moving forward. Oh, the percentages are shifting here a little bit. This is fun. So, I love these polls in real time. I kind of love seeing, you know, the the jockeying and the and the racing between the two responses. Um, but yeah, we're here to help. So my goal today with this presentation is to zoom it out, really think about the psychology, how we view frameworks within the context of business and decision making, and then zoom it back down into actionable insights and frameworks for you guys to implement within your practice.

Evan Lee: Darren, you're going to crush it. I'm going to step out. I'll step back in later on, but, uh, again, I'm super excited to have for everyone to be able to learn from what you're going to chat through.

Darren D'Altorio: Heck yeah. Let's get it to it.

Darren D'Altorio: Awesome, y'all. So, thank you so much, Evan. Again, it's an honor to be here with everybody today. We're going to swing big today. And in the spirit of swinging big, I got a bunch of pictures of big swings. So that's going to be a fun aspect of the day too. Um, but really, you know, we've talked about it a lot today. It's really nice how the content's building. You can't iterate your way to advertising greatness. There is a point at time which you must make definitive, sometimes risky, uh, decisions with how we show up with our creative and how that creative ladders into our strategy.

Darren D'Altorio: So, what's on deck today? As Evan said, I'm a journalist at heart. That's how I started my career. So we're not going to bury the lead. We're going to talk about the main takeaways. I want to present some foundations and thought starters. So just some simple frameworks, um, from a more macro down to a more micro level. We're then going to have a fireside. We're going to bring Evan back and going to unpack some of those concepts in a live discussion. And then there's an appendix that I'm going to leave you all with with some resources on creative testing methodologies, frameworks for media buying and account structure. So hopefully a lot of good leave-behinds that you all can value, um, and bring into your practice day in and day out.

Darren D'Altorio: So, first things first, main takeaways.

Darren D'Altorio: Old is new again, and simplicity always wins. If it's overly complicated, it's probably not going to work. So we really want to distill down to some basics here, zoom out to zoom in, and favor simplicity in what we do.

Darren D'Altorio: Next thing is creative is the new audience magnet. Your, um, inroad to both reach and greater scale, it now starts with creative. That is, um, a very definitive piece of the puzzle, uh, these days. And also, the word magnet is used very intentionally here. The concepts of targeting and conquesting, the language of marketing in a lot of ways to me is very brutal, um, and it doesn't position customers and brands in alignment with one another in a thoughtful way. It's very dominating. So we want to think about building magnets, building inroads, being a guide, and I think it starts with the language that we use and how we talk about our customers and how we work.

Darren D'Altorio: Next thing is iterative frameworks are less effective in the current landscape. Concept frameworks that prioritize differentiation drive outcomes. That is the the the most practical and ground-level takeaway for today, and we're going to unpack that at length.

Darren D'Altorio: Awesome. So let's move to our foundations and thought starters.

Darren D'Altorio: First and foremost, and this is for everyone, right? Myself included. Reflection is always important. The world is changing. Are you? Is your business? Is the way you're showing up within the context of your business evolving to keep pace with how the world is evolving?

Darren D'Altorio: So, with that in mind, we look at ad delivery and auctions as a baseline. We look at things like PMax, ASC, which is becoming a far more adopted, uh, form of of media buying within Meta. These things are changing rapidly and really flattening the levers that media buyers have. So, creative becomes the centerpiece. It becomes the unlock. Are you though, fighting the current or are you rolling with it to adopt and change and roll with the moment?

Darren D'Altorio: Next thing is the media landscape is really collapsing. It's consolidating, it's cross-pollinating.

Darren D'Altorio: In just a minute, there's going to be some, uh, headlines on the screen that double down on that. Um, but the last thing is generative AI. Have you heard of it? Uh, just kidding on that front. It's obviously the buzzword of the year. But it's really, really critical not only how we can complement workflows with generative AI, but where it's actually showing up in the systems like in PMax or ASC.

Darren D'Altorio: Um, but with that in mind, right, the landscape is becoming very weird right now. So it's really important to understand the context of the moment. Taylor talked about that earlier, how the context really matters for how effectiveness prevails. But Google is suggesting that Instagram and TikTok are eating into its search share. They're open about that. We're also seeing that TikTok is experimenting with search ads. So there's cross-pollination and media buying skill sets that are coming into focus. X now has ad inventory available via programmatic. So we're seeing like a collapse into a supply-side, demand-side. And then last but not least, Bing and Microsoft now have ad inventory available in Snap's My AI. These worlds of programmatic, search, social, the lines are really blurring, and the systems are becoming again, more automated and more AI-driven. So it's really important that we understand that in context of how we make decisions and build frameworks for scale.

Darren D'Altorio: Next thing is, whoa, we have a freaking rocketeer showing up early here. That's okay. The best ad for one is the best ad for all.

Darren D'Altorio: Um, this is a quote from an article that I'm going to share the link for, uh, with you all today. I think it's required reading.

Darren D'Altorio: But the reality is humans, we do not change as fast as technology does. Generally speaking, the tenants of great marketing and advertising have been the same for the last century or so. It is really, really critical to understand that the mediums are just different.

Darren D'Altorio: In this required reading, the name of the essay is Anti-Personalization: The Best Ad For One Is the Best Ad For All. This was a transformative article for me to really, you know, reflect and examine my position. Am I keeping up? Am I examining how we're working? And it's really laid the groundwork for how I think about our team structure, our focus going forward.

Darren D'Altorio: But at the end of the day,

Darren D'Altorio: your goal as brand marketers, performance marketers, entrepreneurs, teams, should be to build frameworks that allow you to systematically test highly differentiated concepts to the broadest possible audience within, you know, your constraints, right? There's going to be budget, there's going to be where you are in your maturity journey, to identify what has the highest propensity to scale. That is, what has the most impact over the longest time horizon with the most number of people from a creative standpoint, from a strategic standpoint. That is our goal. And the examples on the screen here, right, just some old ads, but effective. We have rocketeer on some Beeman's bubble gum. We could call this maybe one of the first influencer ads ever, right? Or a an ad with a brand partnership. This is a comic book character who is positioned in an ad in a way to sell gum. Heinz, an iconic brand. The creative is beautiful. The way the bottle is like dispensing ketchup onto each different food product, showing the diversity of how the product can be used to solve your needs in your household. And then the bottle's gone, got to reload. These are great ads that tap into the foundational human way that we receive advertising messaging. It's about emotion first. It's about problems and solutions. Those tenants remain so true, and those tenants are broad. Those are messages that can be delivered to the masses and resonate. That should be our goal in the current landscape.

Darren D'Altorio: So, let's look at this in practice, okay? Vuori, incredible brand, an incredible brand to I think, uh, model decision-making after and a great brand to do research with. In their ads library, and and I will disclose that this is one of our clients, so we work very closely with them. But this ad on the left has been running since March 15th of this year. In a calendar year, Vuori will test roughly 1,500 to 2,000 pieces of creative. There is a high velocity engine. This ad is an ad as simple as it seems that keeps giving. It has the highest propensity to scale within the frameworks of how we design the test. It's a simple flat lay that showcases the color palette, and it has a very succinct tagline, one short for every sport. The beauty here about how this framework evolves is when you want to move media to even more mass reach. So, when we look at the next example, which is a television ad for Vuori, the opening shot brings in the concept. There is a high level of confidence because we know this ad, which is still live and has been live for most of the year, has consistently scaled and taken on more and more spend. This is an ad that we can trust has mass appeal. When we then want to build a more premier asset to reach what we call pure brand awareness, television, we can bring those concepts forward with a high level of confidence that the best ad for one is the best ad for all. And we are putting a relevant message in front of the widest audience possible. It's a really beautiful framework because it allows for expansion and scale throughout the funnel.

Darren D'Altorio: Creative is the new magnet.

Darren D'Altorio: We talked about this at the intro, but I would love to visualize it and contextualize it to the current landscape. So we're zooming in now. Over-indulgent segmentation now limits Meta's auction. That is a fact. And this will eventually be the case for all Snap, TikTok, as all these systems move to be more automated in their ad delivery.

Darren D'Altorio: So, let's look at the old way and look at the new way. When we think about the old way of doing creative strategy and media buying, right, side by side, it was very segmented, persona-based. The idea here is you're drawing these circles, right, that are representative of audiences, people we want to reach. Then you're building ads to pair with those audiences. The problem is is people are dynamic. We change, we shift, we move in and out of life events and needs and wants and desires and income strata. So the variables are constantly moving, but the circles are rigid. And therefore, there is a very real disconnect there. And that disconnect shows up in the metrics, right? Diminishing returns, creative fatigue, and now we're spinning and spiraling. In these new systems, the new way, broad audience is powerful. What we can now do is create a framework for building creative that is concept-driven, that goes and meets people where they are, and those people are moving through these permeable circles, and the auction is able to find and match the right creative with the right person at the right time. And now, maybe the OG media buyers in the room are going to have contention with that statement, but again, we must examine, are we changing? Are we keeping up with the times? Are we stuck in old ways? We've rigorously tested this model at Wpromote. This model is prevailing 80 to 85% of the time where we are seeing mass scale accessible through a broad audience approach with creative concept differentiation and allowing that auction, that machine learning algorithm to do what it does and match that creative with our core audiences. And this is a beautiful framework because it puts that power back in creative's hands. Creative is the magnet. This is how you unlock reach and scale in the current landscape.

Darren D'Altorio: So, now we go down a layer further.

Darren D'Altorio: Big swings, big learnings. Little swings, little learnings.

Darren D'Altorio: And I'm going to put, you know, in other words, iterative testing, what we refer to as making minor changes to existing assets or designing a testing roadmap that prioritizes the small over time will limit both performance and your learnings for what works.

Darren D'Altorio: This is a fine test. This is a test that we ran at Wpromote. This was for a client called Purple Carrot. This is what I would call an iterative test. We have two similar base asset concepts. We have different, uh, value propositions or emotional response cues with the text overlay. This is a really, really fine test for how we derive meaning.

Darren D'Altorio: However, this is a better test. This is a better test because what it does is it positions two wildly diverse themes, one that is very animation-driven, and these were both videos in practice. These are just screen grabs from the videos. But this very animated-driven concept against this more lifestyle concept. We learned so much more from test B in this instance, and we're able to scale and think about how we reach new customers and grow their business with this mindset. So, when we think about how we bring this into our day-to-day, we must look at asset differentiation and setting up the framework to achieve that.

Darren D'Altorio: So, let's look at this in a very real, kind of data-driven sense. Um, this is a report that you can request from Meta. If you're working with Meta, which I'm sure everyone here is media buying on Meta, if you're an agency with a partner manager or you're a brand that has assigned support at Meta, ask for a creative differentiation report. What this will do is it will show you how Meta's auction is actually perceiving your creative. This is one of our clients where you can see on the left, the creative has differentiation. The similarity score is 45%. As we move across, you'll see what we think of as iterative ad design. These are very different creatives, but the thing is the auction is viewing them as similar. We can see that in the similarity score, 82% in the center example and 86% on the far right example. What this means is to the auction, if it perceives that one ad in the middle or right column has no propensity to scale in the total value equation, there isn't user value being derived in this ad, the costs are going to start rising and the other version of the ad is being ostensibly rendered as the exact same. So it's going to guess or assume that that ad will have similar, you know, resonance within the total value equation, and that ad will have a limitation when it comes to scale. You will need to spend more to get that ad in front of more people because that equation will not be working in your favor. So, there are some leave-behinds here at the bottom of the slide. Factors that matter for differentiation in auction and factors that don't. The image hash, the video thumbnail, these are factors that matter a lot for how Meta is perceiving differentiation within the creative. Things that don't matter so much, text, text overlays, copy, while important from a learning standpoint, right? We don't want to just throw that out with the bath water. There is a devalue for same asset with two different taglines over top of it, right? That would be considered like an iterative test or a test maybe that was viable a year or two years ago. In the current auction landscape, that kind of test lacks value, and it is better to move to a more thematic, concept-driven testing structure.

Darren D'Altorio: All right, so let's distill creative strategy here. So now we're getting down to like the job. How can we bring this to life in practice? Where do we start?

Darren D'Altorio: First and foremost, you should weigh your testing roadmap on concept tests, not iterative tests. That's just a baseline takeaway.

Darren D'Altorio: Next up, some concept examples. Where do I start? Unboxing, us versus them, testimonial, lifestyle video, unique value props, founder stories, lo-fi, ugly ads. These are all portals to concepts. You can riff and and play within these concept sort of playgrounds and give yourself a nice runway to get some differentiation flowing into your account.

Darren D'Altorio: Next thing is talent and building the framework, the systems and the people who are going to be executing this within the organizations.

Darren D'Altorio: So, from a job description standpoint, this is how we, um, operate at Wpromote with respect to laddering into this framework. The first pillar is going to be trend research and analysis. This is going to be what's happening on the platforms, what is audience behavior looking like, what's trending and what's hot within different demographics or, you know, groups or genres. That's going to be the language of how we show up and how we format and build our creative. Second pillar is going to be data. So, how are we actually looking at the creative in market, the data and KPIs flowing from that creative, and then using that to inform how we're going to play our next card, build our next big swing. And obviously use Motion to do this. We use Motion to do this. We've been using Motion for years to do this. It is an incredible tool for visualizing and pairing performance data with the creative asset and deriving incredible insights. So yes, use Motion. Lastly is going to be sentiment analysis. This is a really, really important piece of the puzzle with respect to understanding what customer needs are, right? Getting that feedback loop going. Are we actually solving customer problems and listening as a brand? Or are we just pushing, pushing, pushing what we believe our customers want to hear from us? It's really important that we do social listening. It's really important that we comb Reddit, comb Amazon, comb any review source to understand how conversations around our product or service are happening so we can then bring those immediate feedback points into our creative strategy roadmap. If you are looking to build a job description or a role within your organization for this type of work, I would start with this list as the core functions of that role.

Darren D'Altorio: And with that, we will bring Evan back into the mix for our fireside. This is Evan and I sitting next to a nice warm bonfire to unpack some of the role, uh, concepts and discussions, uh, up to this point. And super excited to jump into some Q&A, um, and answer questions from the room. So Evan, come on back in, bro.

Evan Lee: Oh, Darren, so eloquently said. I love all the different areas that you were able to touch. Everybody, if you do have any questions that pop up, throw them into that Q&A tab and start upvoting. So, we're able to get to a spot where we just like start throwing those ones online. But Darren, like, your your presentation just got me thinking about a whole ton, right? So I think like one of the first places I wanted to start was just related to the the audience magnet piece more than anything. So definitely want to want to know the story there more. And then, um, like tying in some of the machine learning pieces as well as it would make sense.

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so I mean, really the audience magnet thing, it it's like, I was in a conference once and I was listening to a speaker talk about marketing and what they do. And it was just, it sounded so brutal. It was so ugly. It was like conquesting and like, we want to make sure that our targets and we're maximizing like every little dollar from every person. It sounded so adversarial. And at the end of the day, like marketing is a very human, it's a very human practice. We're we we are, you know, customers in the space as well. And I don't want to be thought of as a target or as an acquisition or as a conquest. And so I think for us as the practitioners in the space, right, there's a lot of mistrust out there with privacy and how algorithms and auctions and things work. There's a lot of mystification. And if that mystification is paired with a very brutal language, that does not set up a system of trust. And therefore, I think it's our responsibility as marketers to change the language and be, um, you know, influential where we can around how we form these conversations. So that was like a takeaway for me from that conference, which was not the point of the presentation. Um, but I I thought it was resonant and so I've tried to build that into like how I present these concepts, uh, today.

Evan Lee: Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I think like we are we are the leaders of our everydays. So whether it be like at a micro level when we're in the accounts and how we think about like, are we trying to get a sale or is it like we are trying to introduce people to something that's actually beneficial for them. Like there's just language.

Darren D'Altorio: Absolutely. And and and welcome people. It's a community, just like this community is so vibrant and welcoming. Our brands, how we work is a function of community. So that language, uh, should reflect that.

Evan Lee: Fantastic. Fantastic. Okay, so I did want to start switching gears a little bit more into the, um, the practical and making that come to life. So one of the things everyone tends to agree with, I saw the chat going crazy. It's like, yep, broad targeting all the way. Let the audience do this thing. Um, but there's also like this mistrust maybe of like the machine learning side of things. So I'm wondering if I can get your take on it and and how you view the world.

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so I mean, there's always going to be a healthy skepticism, especially with people who have been in the media buying space for a long time, right? We saw it with even something like CBO, right? The campaign budget optimization when that rolled out with Meta. Like, why would I let Meta take my job and do it better? Why would I let it place budget at the ad set level? Like that is a function of optimization. The reality is is, you know, it's not about replacement, it's about elevating our skill sets. And so when you look at like the history of even like computation, like at a certain point, the human beat the chess computer. But then the chess computer beat the human and like we never looked back. So like, eventually the systems, the power of of computers and these machine learning-based, AI-based systems, it will get to a point where it can just make better decisions faster than a human can. And so, coming to terms with that is really important as practitioners, and then taking that delta of time and applying it to really high-value work. And in this instance, that high-value work is creative. It centers creative as the most high-value thing you can be applying your effort to. And that is a really, really important layer. And now, this is not to like discredit the media buyers, right? Like I come from a media buying background. I think for media buyers, it's about how you interface with creative. How you like make that handshake come to life and think through again, there's always going to be account structure needs. There's always going to be understanding the business dynamics, these auction dynamics, the more technical sides of media buying. But when you can really level up your craft in creative and then help share that with the creative strategist and the creative, um, practitioners, the designers and editors, I think that's a far more high-impact organization. And that's what we want to aspire to adopt is understand where the kind of puck is moving, let these systems, you know, learn and continue to improve, but keep feeding it better inputs so that the outputs become better over time.

Evan Lee: That's so good. That is so I literally shoot stuff on my phone and throw it into CapCut for free 99 and then have some stuff and throw it into the world.

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah. Yeah. And like that's the whole spirit, right? Is like fail fast, move fast, do it inexpensively. And then understand what works because as the volume increases, you're going to have learnings. That's the whole goal of testing is to learn. When you're ready to make that big investment, here's something that sucks that we see happen all the time. Somebody goes and spends millions of dollars on a TV spot. They do all this planning and production. It's so expensive. And by the time the social team gets some assets, it's recut and parsed down, and it doesn't work. Why isn't it working? We invested so much money up front in this. Well, you didn't incorporate relevant feedback from a mass market into how you maybe built that hero asset. A smarter way to do it would be to take some big swings at the bottom, find the framework that works well, like akin to the Vuori example, and then bring those elements into the big budget thing. So you have a high confidence that again, the best ad for one is the best ad for all. And we are putting a relevant message in front of the widest audience possible. It's a really beautiful framework because it allows for expansion and scale throughout the funnel.

Evan Lee: I love it. I love it. Yeah, it's that mix between like giving the beast all of the power versus where to take it back in certain scenarios. Cuz again, like nothing is like completely one or zero to one, one or the other. Like there's a lot of nuance in between when we're telling these stories.

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, I just want to shout through ASC. So ASC, Vincent, is, um, an automated shopping campaigns. Or the Advantage+ shopping campaigns rather, within Meta. It's a new, uh, ad campaign type that they rolled out this time last year right before holiday. And it really is like a fully automated ad campaign. You, it's all broad targeting. You feed it your creative. You can set some parameters. They've just introduced geo. You can bid up or bid down on new versus returning customers. So there's some controls. But generally, right, it's a, quote unquote, black box. And this is why there's skepticism and mistrust. It's like, oh my god, like you don't tell it anything. There's no, no targeting parameters, interest this. You just give it creative and let it go. And it's like, yeah, that's what you do.

Evan Lee: Okay, Darren, there's a ton of questions that are starting to roll in. I do want to hit you with a couple others that are kind of top of mind for me. Cuz in the same, in the same vein of like, nothing's really zero to one all the time, we've talked a ton about big swings and I think we all acknowledge that that's where the true scale is going to come from and unlocking new winners. But on the other side is still the iterations, the little smaller changes. I'm wondering if this exists in your world, but is there a like a ratio or a percentage breakdown of how much of your time and spend will go to those big swings versus iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so it's definitely a a great sort of like nuance point of this entire conversation. We never want to throw like the baby out with the bath water or spite our nose or cut off our nose to spite our face, right? Like iteration still has a place. I think what we see often, and we audit a lot of ad accounts, we get to poke under the hood of a lot of what brands are doing. And what we tend to see is a testing roadmap that just looks like small tweaks, small tweaks, small tweaks. It's a lot of the same. For us, right, it's got to start with a big definitive broad stroke. You've got to say like, we're going to introduce something totally net new into the system that maybe we've never done before or that generally has a different look and feel. That is what's going to open up a new lane for you. That's where you're going to get a really, you could call it drinking from the fire hose. You're going to get a huge influx of new data about your customers, about preference, about resonance of a message or a tone of the asset itself. From that point, there is a space for iteration. There is a space to go, like for example, the Vuori thing that I showed, that flat lay of the shorts, they did no less than 50 versions of that. So there is iteration happening, but once you land on a concept to unlock a lane, I would limit the amount of iteration till you find that point of scale, and then I would move on to a new concept to try to open up a new lane. That should be the goal and that should be the balance. Is there a formula for investment in these things? I think that varies based on brand and how your goals are measured, right? Like certain brands, it's KPIs are like customer acquisition. Others are going to be ROAS. So there's going to be scale versus efficiency sort of tensions. Um, I think all the sessions throughout today have really unpacked those, especially the last one in very awesome detail. So I think that's where you kind of start bringing all these conversations together within your organization. Um, but yeah, there's a place for both. I think the hesitancy to take the big swings is what needs to be overcome. Those are going to be your unlocks, those are going to be your force multipliers. That's where we should really be putting our focused effort to, um, build and get uncomfortable with some of that risk that comes with it. Or get comfortable with the risk rather.

Evan Lee: Always got to get comfortable and get out of our comfort zones at the same time. So making sure we're doing it at the same time. Darren, I love that you're able to talk about like the high-level concepts and theories so well, but also marry it with the way that we actually can implement in our day-to-days. I think like the last question that I have before we jump to the Q&A is I want to go back to the high-level piece. So we've talked about this a couple times throughout the day, but I'm very curious about your specific, uh, specific perspective. It's related to that brand and performance conversation. So not only do you have to deal with it like internally at the agency, it's also on the client end and managing that conversation. So I'm just curious about like your experience and your thoughts on that relationship between brand and performance or brand and growth.

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, it's one of the most tragic realities that we all share that somehow along the way, brand marketing and performance marketing got bifurcated and are treated as two separate entities. And often times within organizations, they'll sit in two separate teams. There will literally be a, not a a figurative silo, a literal silo that happens between these two things. And in the reality is that performance is brand and brand is performance. Brandformance, performance branding. Like if your brand, and we'll use, we'll define that as what we'll call actual awareness, pure top of funnel, when we think about, you know, exposures in mass media formats. If that isn't influencing or driving performance to a degree, and then simultaneously, if your performance marketing is not in service of brand awareness, like helping people connect with your brand and remember your brand, then there is a broken system in play there. So the fact of the matter is we want to marry these two concepts. We want to bring them closer together, and we want to help them influence each other in a very symbiotic flywheel. Collapsing the funnel is a a a term that gets thrown around in the marketing space. What that means for me is how do we bring the awareness point and the decision point as close together as possible? How can we with our thoughtfulness and how we welcome people into our brand, make them a believer and get them excited so that they take that action that we want them to take as quickly as possible. I think when you bring these two disciplines together and start that conversation in a very thoughtful way to break the silo down, those goals are highly achievable. That, um, end result is highly achievable. But it's unfortunate that the systems and the organizations that many of us work in or or interface with are set up in a way that those two things are separate.

Evan Lee: So interesting. I appreciate that.

Darren D'Altorio: It's it's tricked us all. It's made us all like, oh my god, like the brand team, they don't get held to like ROAS. We're stuck in this dungeon. They get to do all these like splashy, flashy things. And like there's an an animosity that can occur in in some places between this. It's like, dude, run to whatever floor, send that Slack message like, hey brand marketing, uh, you know, friend, I want to understand how we work together better. Like, if it exists in your org, like break the silo down and go make some friends.

Evan Lee: So important from a cultural perspective. You're right. That's how it's going to be outputted.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Sweet. Darren, let's let's let's rock and roll with some of these, uh, these questions that are starting to come in here. And then the first one that's the most upvoted right now is from Gabriel. Gabe's been asking some really good questions throughout. So let's see what he's got here.

Evan Lee: How do you know when it's time to test iterations of a winning ad in hopes to breath, uh, bring life back into it versus when it's time to test the next winning concept and move on?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so it's a really good question, right? Like in terms of iteration versus concept, I think there's going to be natural inflection points within every business where you can kind of center these moments around. So every, right, we all operate within a calendar year and that marketing calendar might look different for every brand. But there's typically going to be the cultural moments that matter. So things like holiday, right? There's going to be things that happen in the world around us, like the Deion Sanders Blunder. That's an opportunity to capitalize on. I know Taylor brought that up earlier. It's a great example. Um, but also there's going to be things that we can control. Like promos, new product releases. I think when you think about those moments within your business, that's where you really want to center your big swings. That's where you really want to put a lot of focus and effort into taking those risks, having a roadmap to test into those risks. And then from there, there's going to be an iterative life cycle flowing from it. So, how can we maybe maximize the effort from the investment on taking those big swings by doing one to two rounds of iteration after? That would be a good balance because it gives you like a nice time-bound framework to operate within. Um, but there's also, right, like never get stuck in a sunk cost fallacy. Well, if something is literally not working, it is okay to abandon it. It's better to abandon it faster and move on than to get stuck in a sunk cost fallacy. So I will just like note that. Um, sunk cost fallacy is it's a slippery slope and we're all susceptible to it because you just want to hold on, hope and believe. But at a certain point, logic must prevail.

Evan Lee: 100%. And then on top of Gabriel's question, Gabe has a question that actually, I think lends itself nicely more of the agency lens that we're applying now.

Evan Lee: How do you suggest striking a balance between being safer and taking these big swings with clients who are in a situation where they have less budget allocated to their creative testing?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so this is where I think the concept framework is actually super valuable. Somewhere along the way, it became, I think creative and expensive became synonymous. And the truth is that doesn't need to be the case. You can produce a lot of very high-value, potent creative on a shoestring budget with your cell phone and an imagination. Like, you can get out there and do some incredible things. One thing that we see working incredibly well are like UX screen recording flows. If you've never experienced that type of like, what does it look like to shop on our website? What does it look like to use our software? Fire up your phone or your computer, do a screen recording of the three highest impact workflows or just showing people how frictionless your experience is, and then use that as your ad. That is literally free 99. It takes 10 minutes to do, and that is a whole test in and of itself. So budget constraints, right? What is the phrase? Um, something is the motherhood of invention. I forget the first part of that. But anyways, you all get what I'm saying. It's like constraints are a good thing. In fact, you should put self-inflicted constraints at times on your organization. If you have $10,000 to spend, how do we get some awesome stuff by only spending two? I promise you the best work will happen when you bring those kind of constrained mindsets to your workflows and see the magic that flows from it.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia.

Evan Lee: Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to life in every single part of it.

Darren D'Altorio: Yes.

Evan Lee: Alicia has a very, uh, I want to say it's a thought-provoking question, but we'll see how it plays out. So shout out to Alicia. Um, is there such a thing as a creative that lives between a big swing and an iteration? Or is there a line in the sand? I know, right? I know. I

Darren D'Altorio: We're getting like, we're like, should I go eat an edible right now? No, I'm just kidding. Um, yeah, so I think there is something that lives between these two worlds. So, for example, let's say you take a big swing and test a concept, and that concept pops. There is room to then be playful within the framework of that concept. That is a really, really valuable way to sort of bridge like iteration with a lot more thoughtfulness and still some capacity for, you know, pushing the envelope forward. So like if you've never done, um, you know, like we'll say like a person on the street type of creative concept, you do the first one, it goes over really well. All right, let's see now how we can play within the framework of that storytelling mode. That's a great way to bring sort of a a more thoughtful iterative lens versus just like a change the background or or let's do an AB copy test, right? It's a far more thoughtful iterative framework within the confines of a concept.

Evan Lee: I didn't realize that would be such like a thought-provoking question. It just seemed kind of basic and I'm like, hold on a second. Whoa, are we redefining what the world is right now? And that's what's happening. So Alicia, really great job on that one. Okay, the question that we're seeing is the most upvoted right now is mainly like the communication side of things. So we're aligned on ideas, but Liam is asking, how do you communicate the need to break the mold and take those creative swings to try out-of-the-box net new creatives rather than only focusing on data-driven iterations?

Darren D'Altorio: Yeah, so Evan, you and I, I mean, we've been, we've been chopping it up like this for years at this point. And one thing that we always go back to is first and foremost, research is the foundation of everything. You want to watch an exec-level person at a company squirm, show them something their competition is doing that you are not. That is a guaranteed way to make somebody squirm. So, I think research is really important, right? If you're finding that there is sort of a ceiling or a box, there's a confine, one of the things that I like to do is I like to go out in the wild. I like to go out to the Meta ads library. I like to go to the TikTok creative resource library, and I like to see what's trending, what's popping, what's happening within the space or the vertical, you know, I just like do a quick Google search of like top whatever companies, right? There's a lot of B2B folks here, so I'll use B2B as an example. Like, let's say like top, um, you know, third-party logistics software companies. I'll go see what's there, and then I'll go try to find examples of their ads in the wild and see where some good risk-taking is happening. There's going to be some good example of that out in the wild. I like to then take those and then maybe pair it with non-industry or non-vertical. So just like what's good creative period? And what does that landscape look like? And this is good in the subjective sense, right? Because we don't have data. In this research context, this is really about like who's producing cool things with visuals, who's got a good storytelling framework. That's really how I'm defining good in this context. And then I like to put a little deck together and I like to go present that deck and say, I've done some competitive analysis and some landscape research. Here are some things that are happening in the wild, both within our space, but are also jump-off points for, you know, what is maybe, we'll use Gen Z and the language of Gen Z, right? There's a very distinct difference between the creative sort of, um, aesthetic preferences of like Gen Z versus the millennial generation. By zooming in on these like kind of macro-level trends and aesthetic analysis, you're able to unlock the language. And by unlocking the language, you can then create pathways for taking these risks within your organization in a very like data-led, organized, thoughtful, and persuasive way. I think using that framework to get things greenlit is a very viable and and fun framework.

Evan Lee: I'm inspired, man. I'm an agent of, I'm going to be an agent of change tomorrow, today, like at the end of this day, like whatever we do, I'm going to make it come to