Sprints With Evan: How To Make TikTok Creatives That Convert

Evan: And I am excited to talk to these two guys that we have here today, and I'm excited for everyone to be able to pull some some major insights. But ultimately, before I get into the intros of the fellas that we have with us today, as always, I just wanted to start a little bit by talking about Motion and what we are all about.

Evan: So Motion is the hub of creative strategy.

Evan: We focus on analytics and reporting. And what that essentially means is that creative has become the most important element of all of your paid advertising efforts.

Evan: But what that also means is that we have on one hand our performance teams, so our media buyers, and on the other hand, our creative teams. Performance people, very analytical, creative people, exactly that, very creative. So there's this natural gap that's created between both of them. So when we talk about the hub of creative strategy, what we're really focused on is this workflow between the teams that's ultimately melding the two sides of the brain to come together.

Evan: And how Motion helps uh make this a lot easier is that we focus on the creative strategy flywheel to tell the story, and we make it really easy for you to analyze,

Evan: visualize,

Evan: and then share those insights off to everybody and anybody who's involved in that process.

Evan: So that's the first thing when it comes to Motion. And a couple housekeeping pieces before we kick off today. So the very first thing that I like to share is if you have any questions, please, please, please throw them into our chat.

Evan: And then the other thing I like to highlight is anyone who's with us, we have a great community. So if you have insights or feedback to share, also throw that into the chat. Love to know what you have going on. And then the final thing that I wanted to note is that the recording will be made available after this call. If you have friends who couldn't join today, make sure that they're registered for the event so they can get that recording, ultimately. So that's a little bit about Motion and ultimately the housekeeping. But let's get to the actual meat and potatoes of what we have going on today.

Evan: And what we're here to chat about is how to make TikTok creatives that convert with these two guys right here. So these two guys are are a couple of dudes that I respect definitely in the game. I know Ollie and I have been chatting for quite a bit of time, but if you're not sure who they are, get a little bit of context.

Evan: Ollie, we got to get him a new headshot at some point, but Ollie's the man. He's the co-founder of For You Advertising. He builds brands from the ground up, helps scale them from eight to nine figures, and ultimately has had seven plus years in the game. So if you haven't seen him on Twitter, give him a follow. He's sharing expertise always. On the other side of things, we have Lucas. So Lucas is the creative director at For You, but he's also the founder of his own agency, Hambi Media. And what they're focused on is creating performance creative, um primarily on the meta side, but performance creative themes and concepts, um basically have a through line to everything we do. And Lucas has also been in the game for around seven years-ish, but before diving into the agency world, I was talking to him about before this, I was talking to him about it before the call, but he mastered TV and film. So getting into the world of what we'll call brand, but ultimately understanding visual concepts and having that flow through his blood. So, guys, welcome to the party. Everybody in the chat, let's welcome these guys. We're excited to see what they have to say today and answer these questions. So welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome.

Oliver: Yeah, thanks for having us on. Looking forward to it.

Loukas: Thanks for having us.

Evan: Awesome. So guys, um before we start talking about like everything and anything, uh like detailed wise creative strategy, I'm just curious. Lucas, I'm going to throw this to you first just with like the creative strategy background. Like what does creative strategy mean to you?

Loukas: Yeah, I think um it's a good question. I think like the the lines as you kind of touched on at the start there, the lines have become very blurred between media buying and creative strategy. I think nowadays to be a good media buyer, you you have to be a creative strategist. You know, creative is the most important variable in any ad campaign. So it's incredibly important that you you know that and you you understand uh everything from a creative perspective. I think it's like using data to optimize performance through the creative and using that data to turn into tangible insights uh that can not only, you know, be used to to um repurpose creative, but then also use it as ideation for new concepts and new directions.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then Ollie, so you've been hands on keyboard for a while. You've seen it all when it comes to media buying as well as trained up different team members. Why is it now more important than ever for creative to be data driven?

Oliver: I think as the platforms, you know, ever since I I was 13.5, I always get the number wrong. Um ever since then, the trend has been has been towards kind of broader targeting, more hands off um in terms of granularity in ad accounts and giving more control to these platforms. Obviously data loss and that trend's going to continue, I think. And that that creative is more and more driving your targeting and and supporting with reaching the right customers. So optimizing it to attract the right customers, so make sure that it's stopping stopping people in in their tracks when they see on the feed in a world where you're fighting for attention with tons of different advertisers on tons of different platforms. And then ensuring that when you've got their attention, you're taking them through a journey so that you can keep that and then driving them to an action with a clear with a clear call to action and then kind of optimizing across all of those different elements to to knit together a really solid piece of creative is what's really going to drive you through from that awareness to the purchase that you're looking for or the lead that you're looking for. Um by being data driven, you can do that more efficiently. You can you can incrementally improve that over time and you can also keep your costs down where you're not having to just throw things at a wall and hoping for results. You can actually get better.

Evan: Entirely. And I like how effortlessly you start talking about it in terms of almost building that funnel. So it's like the awareness first, getting in front of the right person, driving them to the website and taking that action. Um one of the things I started this conversation with was talking about the natural disconnect that exists between like our media buying arm and our creative arm. So what I'm curious about is Ollie, you can effortlessly speak about it, but Lucas, in your world, being that creative person, um how and what are some steps that you've taken to ultimately get closer to understanding the data so you can make some of the similar decisions that Ollie and people like him will start to talk about.

Loukas: Yeah, it's true. So obviously, yeah, from mine and Ollie's side, we came from different ends of the spectrum and have kind of met in the middle. Um and I think in terms of that, you know, when we're when we're kind of training our creative strategists and for me when I was obviously had to become more data driven when we were, you know, performance marketing, you know, we kind of firstly have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to someone who's selling something that everybody's interested in. So yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. Imean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most of the time they're very vague. So, you know, there's there's we kind of have to analyze the creative and what those creative benchmarks are. Um you know, what what are the KPIs, what what are those metrics that we need to be looking at. It's then kind of deeply understanding those metrics. So what what is thumb stop ratio? What does it mean? What what is a good thumb stop ratio? You know, understanding those those benchmarks and building SOPs around that so the creative strategist know. I think then it's like taking that data, you know, and what we do is then obviously we build reports through um Motion, um and then we're, you know, by weekly or bi-weekly our media buyers are taking that data and then turning that into tangible creative insights as part of a report that they will then send and run through with the creative strategist. I think what's then really important is the creative strategist uses that information to then build out a strategic plan for the next um for for that next brief. So within that, you know, they're we've got a template that we use that goes through key insights from the previous campaign. So like top performing creatives, promising concepts with improved improvement potential, underperforming creatives, successful angles and hooks, winning creative types, etc. And then we'll build a strategic direction for that next campaign. So there are any key focus areas, new ideas and opportunities. So then you'd obviously build an ideation list off the back of that, new hooks that you want to potentially test because again, 80 20 rule, we're obviously wanting to like utilize the data as much as possible, but like anything, um you know, it's important to make sure there's a bank of, you know, at least a small bank of, you know, new concepts that you're testing as well. Um and then I think the one thing as well that's missed quite a lot is reusing exact concepts again but with new creators. I think that's that's something that we're like starting to double down on more. It's like, okay, what if a concept is working really well, why don't we, why don't we use this exact same concept but with a slightly different creator? Um because there's there's loads of potential there. It's like what I always say to our strategist is, you know, you don't always need to reinvent the wheel. And, you know, that's that's really important as well.

Oliver: I think just underpinning all of that as well is like when you first start using kind of cross-sectional industry benchmarks for like what good metrics look like, but as you start to spend and and get a pulse on what those look like for your vertical and for your product, like if you've got a niche product, it's going to be different to something that has a massive TAM, like total addressable market. If you're selling something that everybody's interested in, then your metrics are going to look better than someone who's selling something to 45 plus people in a certain state of America, for example. So, um yeah, benchmarking, tracking those benchmarks over time and and optimizing around those is is key as well.

Evan: I love it. I love it. And then the last follow up that I have on that one is Lucas, you had described like just giving an opportunity for everyone to just throw it at the wall. It's like, let's be free with it and then we'll go ahead and align it with personas. So, if someone's running that meeting, essentially, are they detailing out everything you had shown in that card? So like breaking down two to four, so on and so forth? Or is it literally starting with that high-level concept or framework before diving in? I'm seeing some head nods.

Loukas: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's literally like anything goes. Let's put frameworks, complexity aside and let's just chuck some ideas around, you know, um before then you kind of start taking that into, you know, building those ideas or concepts into an actual framework, you know, scientific framework that works.

Oliver: I think that's crucial. Like everybody has different viewpoints. They're they're picking up on different cross sections of markets. They're consuming different content themselves. Their feeds look different. I think all of those insights, this this process is best run when it's very collaborative and then once you've once you've got to the actual execution piece, then you get into your buckets and your lanes of right, I'm going to own this task and I'm going to do this. Um but the ideation is a very collaborative process throughout.

Evan: It's great. And with all this information because it's coming from all over the place and talking about like a meeting to bring everyone together, where does it start to live? So you have that competitor insight, you have the ad account information, you have these personas. Is it all aggregated into a single location or how do you think about it?

Oliver: I think yeah, so there's two ways to do it. There's obviously brand side and agency side. I think if you're talking from an agency workflow, it's like moving that into a project management um flow. I guess that's the same on both sides. From a from a brand side, it's kind of coming together, having a very structured meeting and ideation, taking that meeting forward, taking those specific um concepts and moving that into a project management workflow that can be worked through.

Loukas: Yeah, so we've got quite an in-depth process when it comes to research. You know, we we basically firstly, you know, if we're working with a brand, um once we've kind of got the onboarding questionnaire and got all of that relevant information. I mean, in most cases, they're it's fairly vague and you don't get a whole lot of information provided. Sorry, can you hear me?

Evan: Got you. It's a little bit frozen, but we hear your voice.

Loukas: Hello.

Oliver: I think he's gone.

Evan: One of the things about the online world. It's all good. Um it's great that we have Ollie. Are you able to jump in and talk about like research where to look?

Oliver: I think he's back. Oh, no, he's back.

Loukas: Apologies. Internet just decided to drop at the worst possible moment.

Oliver: It's all good. Go on, carry on. I was going to jump in but you go.

Loukas: Um yeah, so like I was saying, obviously when we're provided with an onboarding questionnaire from most brands, they're most