Should B2B Run a DTC Playbook? Manychat & Wispr Flow's Creative Strategy

Josh Levine: All right, it's so good to see everyone. Uh my name is Josh Levine and I'm gonna be walking you through the creative strategy playbook behind Manychat.

Josh Levine: And for those that don't know Manychat, we are the number one Instagram automation platform on the internet. You might have heard us from, comment this link and we'll send you this dress or this lead magnet or whatever it is. That is Manychat and I'm going to be walking everyone through, uh, what we've been doing, uh, at Manychat for creative strategy.

Josh Levine: Um, like I said, my name is Josh. I've been leading creative strategy at Manychat for about a year and a half. Previously, I, uh, worked in brand marketing and integrated marketing at Sony PlayStation and Zappos. I was also the head of social at Doorloop, which is a property management software company, also B2B. And then, uh, I've been doing acquisition marketing previously at an agency called BLP. I also freelance on the side for a few of the clients over here. But let's go right into it.

Josh Levine: Um, today I'm going to be answering one simple question. And that question is,

Josh Levine: should B2B run the DTC playbook? And I know that that answer is going to vary wildly, but I'm going to give you what our answer looks like and what our playbook looks like as well.

Josh Levine: So should we run the the DTC playbook? Well, what is the DTC playbook? If you've been on some of the other talks, you might have heard some of these buzzwords. Archetypes, ROAS, LTV, CAC, direct response, volume testing. We do a mix of all of these things, right? We take, we try to take in direct response messaging, uh, evaluating by conversion-based metrics, you know, putting in volume to identify more winners, and then messaging, segmenting by different archetypes. Like what is actually going to work?

Josh Levine: But the real answer is, should B2B run the DTC playbook is it's going to depend entirely on your brand. Okay?

Josh Levine: So for us, I'm going to give you a little bit of a peek behind the curtain and see exactly what it is that we do at Manychat.

Josh Levine: And today we're going to be covering five specific topics. We're going to be covering testing strategy, our messaging, how we actually build messages, specifically in video. What successful creative actually looks like at Manychat. We're talking, we're going to be talking about why impressions matter and it's impressions are actually kind of a lost KPI. So I'm really excited to dive into that. And then something that I think is almost definitely new to everyone is we're going to be talking about influence pillars.

Josh Levine: So what is our testing strategy?

Josh Levine: What does it look like? Well, there's a few specific things that we do. We have predictable rotation schedules. That means that we are going to be bringing in creative on the same exact day every single week. We rotate creative in on Mondays. Every seven days, we rotate new creative in. We also have clear and very specific restrictions on how we are utilizing AI. Um, and I think that this is really important to figure out like how you as a brand want to use AI in your creative. We will not put any AI generated copy. We use only human generated copy in all of our ads. We also are that we're putting only human creators in our ads as well too for video. So like we're never going to have an AI generated human. And I know that that's going to vary from brand to brand, but for us, that is what makes sense for us as a brand, especially a brand that works directly and sells to content creators. And we also have minimum spend and time-based evaluations. So I know a lot of people say, I can figure out if an ad is actually going to be performing well for us within three days, five days, whatever it might be. But for us, we leave ads in for a minimum of 14 days and we have a minimum spend threshold as well.

Josh Levine: And that is for a very specific reason. All of these things that we are doing is to protect. We're doing this to protect our team bandwidth, right? So if you're going to be rotating on different cadences, it's going to be really difficult for the team to know what to predict and to predict their bandwidth. We're also going to be protecting campaign health, our brand identity, right? So if we have specific types of AI that we are comfortable with putting in our campaign, it's important for us based on our brand identity for how we associate. And then also testing hygiene, right? So like any side, any type of test that we're running, we want to make sure we have clean data as well.

Josh Levine: Diving into our messaging a little bit as well,

Josh Levine: there's a few things that I want you guys to hold together from this specific message is that I want you to tell them. That is something very specific around direct response is you need to tell them what to feel, what to believe, and what to do. And I'll explain what that means in a little bit with a couple of examples.

Josh Levine: So for messaging, this is an example of how we might run it at Manychat. As a creator, I'm constantly felt, I've constantly felt overwhelmed by DMs. That's a pain point that they're actually going to be taking to themselves so they can reflect on their own opinions as well.

Josh Levine: Oh, this one is blocked off. Um, sorry, the formatting is a little bit off. It got blocked in, uh, in transit. Um, but everything changed when I realized that there was a way to automate DMs at scale. This is something that they can believe, right? It's like, I have this pain point, but I believe that something can change and there could be a product that can change it,

Josh Levine: which is Manychat, right? We use an automation, comment Manychat to try it for yourself for free for 30 days now. And clear, direct, specific CTA. There are a lot of places where CTAs don't make sense, but for us, in any sort of conversion-oriented ad, you need to tell them what to feel, what to believe, and what to do.

Josh Levine: Let's talk about creative. So, successful creative.

Josh Levine: I think that that varies wildly from brand to brand, but for us, we are always looking to put these five things into any creative that we are running. And it could sway and weigh on different ones more once than the other. But these five things are things that we are always looking at. We're looking at specific pain points. We're trying to find a resonant format. We're trying to find unique benefits. We're trying to find distinct needs. And then the most important thing is why should I care? Like, why should the person that's actually looking at this ad actually care? And if we can't answer that, we can't expect our viewers to answer that either.

Josh Levine: And another thing is, I didn't say a successful creative means that the CAC you're going to have is less than a specific target, right? So let's say our CAC target was $250. Well, what if it's $251 or $300? Does that mean that it's not successful?

Josh Levine: For us at Manychat, we are not evaluating only by conversion-based metrics. And that is very distinct for a few specific reasons, which I'm going to dive into. So why is it?

Josh Levine: Why, why are we not only evaluating by conversion-based metrics? I think a lot of people recognize that there are other metrics that are important, but when they're looking at and evaluating performance inside of Motion, inside of, you know, Ads Manager, whatever it might be, you're really putting everything to what you're optimizing towards. But for us, impressions matter. Impressions are a lost KPI that people do not value as much.

Josh Levine: And for us, we value impressions because it is the real only thing that we can control when we are putting things into the market. And I ask, are all impressions created equal?

Josh Levine: Right? Like if I'm going to be putting something onto an influencer marketing campaign or if I'm going to be putting something into a paid social campaign or an email or whatever it is, are they created equal? And of course not.

Josh Levine: Like they're absolutely not created equal. And how do I know this? Well, it's because you guys have an impression of me, right? This is probably the first time you've heard me speak. You may have seen me on LinkedIn before, but the impression that you're getting of me, like the actual viewpoint of like, you're conceiving who I am, the impression of me here, speaking at the creative summit is very different from the impression that you might get from me on LinkedIn.

Josh Levine: So of course they're not going to be equal. The impression that you get from me here is very similar to anything you're running in marketing. Right? And the fact is, marketing paths are limitless. The reality is, you cannot control how someone discovers you, how you are going to find out about someone and push them through a specific funnel. You know, there, there might be a way for you to learn about your brand, but no one is going to be able to go from an event, then to an email, then to an organic post, then to a paid social post.

Josh Levine: And there's no way to control that. The only thing that you can control is the quality of your impressions. Because the reality is, marketing is more integrated than ever before. All it is is a sum of the impressions that we are putting out into the market.

Josh Levine: Right? So like when we are building creative, all we can do is control the highest amount of quality of that impression that we are putting into the market. So what we do is we prioritize strengthening, we try to strengthen every single...

Evan Lee: Y'all, we hit that, we hit that can Wi-Fi wall. We hit that can Wi-Fi wall. Anybody out there in France? Jeez, what's going on?

Josh Levine: [unclear]

Evan Lee: Hello, hello. Mic check, mic check.

Josh Levine: [unclear]

Evan Lee: Oh no. It's okay. I think now, let's try the, let's try camera off because I think the audio and your deck is doing a really great job. But then on the, on the voice, it's cutting out here and there. So let's try, let's try that. I'll pop, I'll pop back if it's keeps going.

Josh Levine: Sorry y'all.

Evan Lee: Oh no. Oh no, we've lost Josh. We've lost Josh. Quality matters though, and what we're trying to do is bring the quality right on back, right? We're trying to make sure that we bring the the the audio to where it needs to be so we can do through the insights that make a big difference. And I think what Josh is talking about is so important in this process ultimately. Being able to identify which metrics matter most. It's not always about the bottom line metric. It also starts to come back to those softer metrics that you want to be able to leverage.

Josh Levine: How are we doing, Josh?

Evan Lee: You guys hear me okay?

Josh Levine: Is that okay?

Evan Lee: Got you. We got you back. We got you back. Let's give this, let's give this a shot.

Josh Levine: Amazing. Let's run this video off. Cannes is beautiful, but the Wi-Fi is not. So let's see what we can do here. All right, everyone. Thank you for bearing with me on this. So what were we talking about? We were talking about prioritizing every single touchpoint, right? The evaluation is blended. The evaluation is blended and it's not siloed. We're not going to be comparing Meta against Google. We are going to be making sure that everything that we evaluate is a blended CAC. Because quality really matters. And how are we actually looking for quality when it comes to each individual ad? Well, we prioritize hold over hook. And I know there's probably a lot of talks that you guys have gone through where everyone's like, this is how you bring in a good hook. The hook is the only thing that matters. If no one sees your ad in the first three seconds, they're not going to care. Well, hook is important, but to us, we prioritize holding someone. From three seconds to 15 seconds is what we are looking to build in every single creative first. And why is that? Well, it's easier to fix a bad hook, right? Like once you find what's performing from seconds three to seconds 15, you can actually start to figure out what it is that someone is resonating with, and then you can try a bunch of different hooks and you can iterate and you can build into different formats. It demonstrates a quality interaction. If someone is actually staying all the way through to 15 seconds, which is a through play, it means that they're probably interested in what you are presenting, the information you're presenting. And then the final thing, and to us, the most important thing is our influence pillars. And this is how we evaluate the blended performance of all of our marketing. So what are influence pillars? Well, influence pillars are what we are trying to impact and influence for every single viewer when we are putting a touchpoint in market. And this is tremendously important for paid ads, but it's also really important across all the channels that we are running. The first influence pillar that we are trying to affect is familiarity. Does someone actually know your brand, right? If I hear Manychat, do I know what Manychat actually is? Trust. We're trying to impact the trust. Do they trust your brand? Do they believe that you're actually going to deliver on what you're saying you're going to deliver on? Do they believe in your product? If I am saying, hey, before I was doing this, then I started using Manychat and this is what's going on now. I'm, you know, driving a million sales. I've got so much more time on my hands. Do they actually believe in the product? Affinity. Do they actually like your brand? Like, I think people really don't think about it nowadays. It's like, do people actually like your brand? Will they actually, if you give them a hat with your logo on it, would they actually put it on and wear it outside? Do they subscribe to it? Preference. Do they prefer your brand? This is a very simple competitor comparison, right? Manychat has competitors. I'm sure a lot of you do too. Will they choose and prefer your brand over others in the market? And then finally, an action, right? Like this is probably the most important one, especially for a direct response, um, ran marketing strategy. And we intentionally try to put things in market that take action. Something that I actually love and the thing that I've loved Motion for that we implemented about six months ago is we tag every single ad that we have in market with a primary influence pillar and a secondary influence pillar. And what that means is, I can tell exactly how many impressions I'm putting in any specific geo, in any specific market, in any specific campaign, what it is that we are impacting, right? Do we have a specific amount of trust that is building in a specific market? Because the reality is, you know, what we're running in the United States compared to what we're running in Brazil might be very different. We might be trying to build the affinity in Brazil more than we have in the United States. So here are some creative format examples that you can pair to the things that we're talking about. Native organic content, you know, someone that is actually just starting to learn about your brand, maybe something that feels more native that would run on TikTok or an organic post on social be something to actually get someone to be familiarized with your brand without any sort of hard sell. Someone trusting your brand, I'm sure people have talked about founder stories. Founder stories are incredibly valuable in a way that someone can build trust in your brand. Before and afters, right? Someone believe in your product. Hey, this is the state of my business before, this is the state of my business after. This is getting someone to believe that what it is you're putting in, that if you actually subscribe to this product is going to be valuable. Interviews, right? If someone is interviewing you about something in the market, it doesn't even necessarily need to be about your product, but maybe it's something tangential. So for us, we just like to host conversations around the creator community, right? That might give someone the ability to drive affinity for our brand. Us versus them. Do they prefer your brand versus something else? Right? This is what we do, this is what others do. This is why you should prefer us. And then for doing something, every single format you can figure out would probably work for this. You just got to figure out how to put direct response marketing tactics into it. And the most important thing that we do is partnership ads. Partnership ads are going to be some of the most important things for anyone in B2B or across any other, um, specific markets to run moving forward in 2026. We actually are intentionally putting at least four of every 10 impressions in market behind a creator-led creative or a partnership ad. Sorry about the formatting. This did not translate well, but thank you all so much for taking Manychat's creative strategy crash course. I covered a lot. Um, so if you only took away one thing around testing strategy, whatever it is, for your testing strategy, I want you to protect. Protect your bandwidth, protect your brand identity. For messaging, tell them what to do. Tell them what to feel, tell them what to believe, tell them what to do. Successful creative does not need to be equal to whatever CAC goal that you put in market because impressions matter, right? Think about Josh versus Josh. Your impression of me might be totally different here than how I show up online on LinkedIn or Instagram or whatever it might be. And then influence pillars, a creative is not one size fits all. You can put a creative in market to drive affinity, you can put a creative in market to drive preference or to take a specific action. So thank you all. I am so glad that this only cut out once for my Wi-Fi. I was really nervous this was not going to work. Um, and I hope you guys can all hear me okay. Um, if you want this deck, obviously they're going to be sending this out after, but if you want to learn a little bit about Manychat, DM me on Instagram, the word motion, and you will get this deck directly in your DMs. Thank you all so much. I am now going to bring up Eric from Wispr who is going to be talking about his strategy, uh, for B2B marketing as well.

Eric Zaworski: Hopefully my Wi-Fi won't cut out like in Cannes. Josh, you snapped. That was great, man. Congrats on the, on the deck and I hope, hope Cannes has been, been treating you well. Uh, hey everyone. Um, looking forward to sharing some of what we, um, think about when we launch ads here at Wispr Flow. So I'm going to go ahead and share this deck. Hopefully we can see this. Um, but yeah, great, great insights from Josh and the Manychat team, you know, 40% partnership ads in flight. I hope everyone's taking notes. Um, so Josh just spent 20 minutes making the case for how to think about B2B creative and handed you guys some pretty solid frameworks. This second half is going to show from our perspective what it looks like to actually run this with the machine and receipts behind it, plus one piece that I believe and anyone who's working in performance today knows is still genuinely hard. So, my name is Eric Zaworski. I run, uh, performance marketing here at Wispr Flow. And by the end, um, you'll see, uh, a little bit about how we define ads, uh, our scoring system, and some of the measurement traps that you can follow. So, I'm based here in Los Angeles. Um, and in a prior life, I was a music journalist. I was a self-employed social go-to-market consultant and performance strategist for a few years under my own company, Easy Media. Um, and I've had clients across fashion, crypto, um, tech, you name it, music. So, why that matters is I came up in culture and creative first and then crossed into performance. And that combination is the thesis of how I approach performance marketing and kind of what I, uh, am hoping to do with this talk. So, Wispr Flow, I'll show you, uh, a little bit more about our product and I hope we have a few, uh, fans in the chat. Um, but it is a voice-to-text dictation tool, uh, that actually works. So, you talk and it turns it into clean formatted writing, whether you're writing an email, responding to WhatsApp or iMessages, or even coding, what, uh, Wispr Flow allows you to edit, uh, what you've said as you speak. So teams at Notion, Amazon, Rivian use it to think out loud and get text out. And the key thing about Wispr is it's a daily habit product. I was a customer of Wispr Flow before I became on their team, and it was a tool that I opened once and never closed, not unlike something like Gmail back in the day or ChatGPT or Claude. And, um, since, uh, you're giving me a little bit of your time, I wanted to give a gift to everyone watching. So, if you follow this link, uh, anyone who hasn't tried Wispr Flow gets two months free on the house. And I'd love to know what you think about it. Um, so come back and tell me your, uh, hook rates went up, uh, because you started watching this and using your voice instead of typing out your briefs. So, one of the reframes I'd like to ground this talk in is some of the best ads that we've run in the last 90 days. And if you'll notice,

Eric Zaworski: Write me a seven-page paper on why In-N-Out is better than Shake Shack by Wednesday. I mean, Thursday. When you're in a browser, you can hold down command and click to open. It looks like a TikTok. Um, so it didn't mention Wispr. It talked about In-N-Out. It talked about a different, uh, tool entirely. And it looked like something that your cousin might post.

Eric Zaworski: Hey, Sonya, keep up the great work. See you at the team meeting on Tuesday. I mean, Wednesday. Blessings.

Eric Zaworski: So, they don't look like enterprise software ads, right? They look like, uh, something you might see on a TikTok. The reason for that is modern B2B advertising isn't B2B advertising. It's consumer advertising with a longer spreadsheet and a LinkedIn post at the end. The same hooks, the same creators, the same thumb-stopping creative that you already know, whether you're working in, uh, direct-to-consumer, B2C, um, something more general rather than AI voice-to-text dictation software. The only difference is what happens after the click. The reason for that is product-led growth. Product-led growth means the user is the buyer now. There's no procurement, no demo, no six-month sales cycle. The purchase is small and impulsive, happening on the same day, usually on mobile. It's the same decision as buying makeup or subscribing to a newsletter. So, if you're running it like enterprise software from 2015, you're basically leaving the game on the table. So, here are four things that look different now in B2B advertising. The buyer looks completely different. The creative looks different, and the operation looks different. And fourth, measurement is still genuinely hard. Josh already gave you some great pillars of framework, so these are kind of shifts. And the first three are actually like great news. The fourth is the part that people like to shy away from in these talks, and we'll come back to it. So, here's some good news actually, and it's a relief. Your consumer skills transfer directly to B2B. Hook instincts, UGC playbooks, thumb stop, they walk right into the B2B boardrooms. You didn't waste time when you were, you know, scaling a t-shirt brand or a restaurant's Instagram. These apply directly to some of the biggest companies working today. For example, Wispr Flow is an AI-powered voice-to-text application. And our top eight ads in the last 30 days, three-fourths of them are run by creators and UGC. 12 and a half percent are polished high-end production that we manage in-house or with agency partners. And the last percent is static ads. We didn't invent a B2B playbook here. We're running a consumer playbook for B2B software. So, this is where things get different. To run a consumer playbook at scale, you need to build a machine. This is an example of our machine called the Creative Factory. I won't walk through every box. This is a whole other hour-long conversation. But creative comes in from sources, hits a front door, named, tagged, prepped for launch. Everything comes back to a decision brain that helps inform the media buyer, me, what to kill, what to iterate, what to scale. This is an assembly line for creative, and I'll show you some of the pieces that matter in our team. We run a GitHub repo on the marketing department. Um, please Google that if you don't know what it is, fellow marketers. But our marketing team has branches, commits, skills, automations. And I'll show you who built it, too. Um, one of core component is lever, uh, is volume. That is our main lever to pull. And what that looks like for me is 500 ads monthly launched. The job now is 80% creative ops, which I like to compartmentalize into opportunities, operations, and optimizations. And 20% is actually media buying, which is co-piloted by Claude along with tools like the Meta Ads MCP and marketing API, and of course, the Motion MCP. Bid tweaking daily, mostly gone. Three years ago, this job was hands-on keyboard and bid optimizations, and the lever being creative. That's today. And I know build a machine, 500 ads a month, probably terrifying to some of the people watching, but I want to kind of, you know, walk you off the cliff and let you know that you don't have to fear the machine. Anyone can cook. The machine doesn't replace a creative person. It just means that a great idea can now come from, be iterated on, and scaled from anywhere. And one person can run what used to take a team. So, one idea around this is the discipline around testing and scaling. I'm not going to go into details about whether ABO or CBO, I'll let you and, uh, essays on Twitter, uh, determine which is best. But a healthy account is 15 to 25% spend in testing and 75% rewarding ads that graduated and deserve to scale. The moment testing drifts above 25%, it's not testing anymore. It's untracked, unoptimized, out-of-control scale at in a testing costume. Josh talked about protecting testing, and this is how we look at, uh, protecting ours. Second, every ad gets tagged before it's launched. We have concepts, awareness pieces, angles, and even personas around who we think the ad is for based on the content of the ad and the content of the brief. The reason for this is when something wins, I know exactly what won, and I can brief 10 iterations on the winning combination of these taxonomies tomorrow. When this stop becoming lucky and become repeatable. So, you know, I'm sure Peter Drucker was talking about, uh, Facebook Ads Manager when he said, "What gets measured gets managed," but that applies here today. So, one example of how we track everything is a creative ledger where every ad tag, its status, concept, angle, awareness, you name it, is one row in a Google Sheet and a single source of truth for the entirety of our ad stack. 50 is average, 75 is a banger. So, we have a real leaderboard, top ads score over 80, and then partnership ads, like the ones you see at the bottom, score under that. Um, if you see things like the hold column, it starts to die, and, uh, basically nobody stays for the payoff or the education inherent in the ad for it to have a positive return on, uh, investment. Cheap and busy isn't the same as being good, and our banger score sees right through that. So, here's our actual formula, and please feel free to screenshot. We think 30% uh, towards hook, 30% towards hold, 25% click-through rate, and 15% CPM efficiency times by 50. Hook and hold are weighted exactly the same on purpose. And I know Josh told you that hold beats hook, and I agree so hard that I won't let a great hook carry a video that doesn't also hold. I think they earn it together. The surprise here is everything that you saw, whether it was the taxonomy, the creative ledger, the creative factory, this was all built in the marketing department without an engineer. And you can, if you can write a clear brief and talk to an LLM, you can build this. The most important minute of this talk now is all that tagging, all that concept diversity. This isn't me trying to give you busy work to be tidy in your ads manager so you look, you know, important in meetings. Creative diversity is a Meta-verified model input, not a strategy preference. This is a requirement that they literally tell you is the basis for how they serve ads to your customers. This is from Meta's own writing of GEM, their generative ads model, which I encourage everyone here to Google and read. Um, it's the thing that actually decides who sees your ads. It has to learn from a diverse array of ads with different goals, formats, and signals. What that means for you is if you launch 10 identical ads with a color swap or a new hook, and the model sees roughly one thing and splits your budget across one signal. But if you do 10 genuinely different concepts, you have 10 signals. You're not just making more ads, you're feeding the algorithm the diversity that it's begging for. The B2B, B2C wall isn't just fake to me. Meta is literally telling you in their documentation that it's one and the same. The part of this that how this translates to ads is the ad I showed you at the beginning, which was one of the best in our last quarter. It had a keyboard replacement concept. Bryce gets into using the function button to, uh, operate, um, Wispr Flow with a contrarian angle, indifferent awareness. So it doesn't even lead with what our product is. It talks about Claude and Mac shortcuts that you should know. And, um, and it talks to users who don't even know what their problem is yet. So, this is out of James Webb Young's, um, uh, Motion bootcamp playbook around product truth and cultural meme. Um, the cultural meme being writing an essay about In-N-Out versus Shake Shack, if you're paying attention to the beginning of the hook. Um, if it's not logged, it doesn't exist strategically, and we don't get to claim we knew after the fact. One trap that usually happens and no one really talks about in these talks is, you know, uh, obvious winners being a trap. One that we talk about internally is the false banger. I'll give you an example. It's an ad that was in the same bucket as the winner ad that, uh, I just showed you, testing facing North America for desktop downloads. The ad had the highest hook rate of the week at 39 and a half percent. It was literally out-hooking the In-N-Out ad that I was showing. So if you optimized for hooks, you would probably throw $1,000 behind this ad and scale tomorrow. But the hold was only 14% uh, that reached the quarter, the quarter mark, and only three and a half percent of the people who saw the ad actually finished it. The highest hook in the account was a money pit. To Josh's point, hold beats hook with receipts here. Which brings us to pillar four around measurement. You need to trust your own conversion event, not the platform's. And I know a lot of the DTC folks in the audience know exactly what I mean here. The only conversion number we ultimately trust is our own server-side event, not Meta's. Platforms over-credit themselves, especially on app installs, on cheap impression campaigns when math gets fuzzy. For fun, you can slick on the incremental attribution in Ads Manager and see what I mean. But if you're in DTC with clean Shopify data, you've probably not had to think about this, but in B2B SaaS, this is the entire game. Trust your own conversion event, not the platform's. None of these are Wispr-specific. They work for any product where the user is also the buyer. What did this add up to for us? Across this and work from, uh, our entire team, 54% lower customer acquisition cost last quarter, anchored by our shift from static to UGC. And I'll be, you know, straight, this isn't like a one-to-one correlation. But the direction is the whole point, and the direction is not subtle. We sell AI software like it's a daily habit because for our users, it is. And I'll leave you with this last thought. We're an AI company that builds to actually empower people with their voices, not replace them. A human built the machine that I showed you before that powers our advertising. He's been talking to you guys for the last 20 minutes. And the machine just lets me do more of what humans do best, which is come up with funny memes that we send to you via Instagram. So that's me. That's it. And, uh, as a reminder, two free months, uh, at ref.wisprflow.ai/motion. Um, thank you so much. I look forward to, uh, hearing how you all love Wispr Flow, and I hope this was an illuminating, uh, presentation for you.

Evan Lee: Crushed it. Oh my goodness. Dropping all the gems. I love it, Eric. That was incredible, man.

Eric Zaworski: Thank you. Thank you, Evan.

Evan Lee: There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb. The machine doesn't replace a creative person. It just means that a great idea can now come from, be iterated on, and scaled from anywhere. And one person can run what used to take a team. So, one idea around this is the discipline around testing and scaling. I'm not going to go into details about whether ABO or CBO, I'll let you and, uh, essays on Twitter, uh, determine which is best. But a healthy account is 15 to 25% spend in testing and 75% rewarding ads that graduated and deserve to scale. The moment testing drifts above 25%, it's not testing anymore. It's untracked, unoptimized, out-of-control scale at in a testing costume. Josh talked about protecting testing, and this is how we look at, uh, protecting ours. Second, every ad gets tagged before it's launched. We have concepts, awareness pieces, angles, and even personas around who we think the ad is for based on the content of the ad and the content of the brief. The reason for this is when something wins, I know exactly what won, and I can brief 10 iterations on the winning combination of these taxonomies tomorrow. When this stop becoming lucky and become repeatable. So, you know, I'm sure Peter Drucker was talking about, uh, Facebook Ads Manager when he said, "What gets measured gets managed," but that applies here today. So, one example of how we track everything is a creative ledger where every ad tag, its status, concept, angle, awareness, you name it, is one row in a Google Sheet and a single source of truth for the entirety of our ad stack. 50 is average, 75 is a banger. So, we have a real leaderboard, top ads score over 80, and then partnership ads, like the ones you see at the bottom, score under that. Um, if you see things like the hold column, it starts to die, and, uh, basically nobody stays for the payoff or the education inherent in the ad for it to have a positive return on, uh, investment. Cheap and busy isn't the same as being good, and our banger score sees right through that. So, here's our actual formula, and please feel free to screenshot. We think 30% uh, towards hook, 30% towards hold, 25% click-through rate, and 15% CPM efficiency times by 50. Hook and hold are weighted exactly the same on purpose. And I know Josh told you that hold beats hook, and I agree so hard that I won't let a great hook carry a video that doesn't also hold. I think they earn it together. The surprise here is everything that you saw, whether it was the taxonomy, the creative ledger, the creative factory, this was all built in the marketing department without an engineer. And you can, if you can write a clear brief and talk to an LLM, you can build this. The most important minute of this talk now is all that tagging, all that concept diversity. This isn't me trying to give you busy work to be tidy in your ads manager so you look, you know, important in meetings. Creative diversity is a Meta-verified model input, not a strategy preference. This is a requirement that they literally tell you is the basis for how they serve ads to your customers. This is from Meta's own writing of GEM, their generative ads model, which I encourage everyone here to Google and read. Um, it's the thing that actually decides who sees your ads. It has to learn from a diverse array of ads with different goals, formats, and signals. What that means for you is if you launch 10 identical ads with a color swap or a new hook, and the model sees roughly one thing and splits your budget across one signal. But if you do 10 genuinely different concepts, you have 10 signals. You're not just making more ads, you're feeding the algorithm the diversity that it's begging for. The B2B, B2C wall isn't just fake to me. Meta is literally telling you in their documentation that it's one and the same. The part of this that how this translates to ads is the ad I showed you at the beginning, which was one of the best in our last quarter. It had a keyboard replacement concept. Bryce gets into using the function button to, uh, operate, um, Wispr Flow with a contrarian angle, indifferent awareness. So it doesn't even lead with what our product is. It talks about Claude and Mac shortcuts that you should know. And, um, and it talks to users who don't even know what their problem is yet. So, this is out of James Webb Young's, um, uh, Motion bootcamp playbook around product truth and cultural meme. Um, the cultural meme being writing an essay about In-N-Out versus Shake Shack, if you're paying attention to the beginning of the hook. Um, if it's not logged, it doesn't exist strategically, and we don't get to claim we knew after the fact. One trap that usually happens and no one really talks about in these talks is, you know, uh, obvious winners being a trap. One that we talk about internally is the false banger. I'll give you an example. It's an ad that was in the same bucket as the winner ad that, uh, I just showed you, testing facing North America for desktop downloads. The ad had the highest hook rate of the week at 39 and a half percent. It was literally out-hooking the In-N-Out ad that I was showing. So if you optimized for hooks, you would probably throw $1,000 behind this ad and scale tomorrow. But the hold was only 14% uh, that reached the quarter, the quarter mark, and only three and a half percent of the people who saw the ad actually finished it. The highest hook in the account was a money pit. To Josh's point, hold beats hook with receipts here. The B2B measurement mirage. You need to trust your own conversion event, not the platform's. And I know a lot of the DTC folks in the audience know exactly what I mean here. The only conversion number we ultimately trust is our own server-side event, not Meta's. Platforms over-credit themselves, especially on app installs, on cheap impression campaigns when math gets fuzzy. For fun, you can slick on the incremental attribution in Ads Manager and see what I mean. But if you're in DTC with clean Shopify data, you've probably not had to think about this, but in B2B SaaS, this is the entire game. Trust your own conversion event, not the platform's. So here are some things that, uh, you can bring to your boss on Monday. Please steal these. Let me know how they work. Brief like the purchase is a phone impulse, not a committee. Volume and meaningful, real diversity beats bid tweaks. So you should feed the models that power Meta ads. Read hooks and holds before you trust customer acquisition cost. And trust your own conversion event, not the platform's. None of these are Wispr-specific. They work for any product where the user is also the buyer. What did this add up to for us? Across this and work from, uh, our entire team, 54% lower customer acquisition cost last quarter, anchored by our shift from static to UGC. And I'll be, you know, straight, this isn't like a one-to-one correlation. But the direction is the whole point, and the direction is not subtle. We sell AI software like it's a daily habit because for our users, it genuinely is. And I'll leave you with this last thought. We're an AI company that builds to actually empower people with their voices, not replace them. A human built the machine that I showed you before that powers our advertising. He's been talking to you guys for the last 20 minutes. And the machine just lets me do more of what humans do best, which is come up with funny memes that we send to you via Instagram. So that's me. That's it. And, uh, as a reminder, two free months, uh, at ref.wisprflow.ai/motion. Um, thank you so much. I look forward to, uh, hearing how you all love Wispr Flow, and I hope this was an illuminating, uh, presentation for you.

Evan Lee: Crushed it. Oh my goodness. Dropping all the gems. I love it, Eric. That was incredible, man.

Eric Zaworski: Thank you. Thank you, Evan.

Evan Lee: There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. There were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, um, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, yeah, and on our end, I'll, I'll give everyone some pretty tactical advice because I think that's the most useful. So there's two things that I would recommend. The first thing is, if you have a product marketing department, that should be your best friend. Like, become a best friend with whoever your product marketer is. They're going to know your customer the best. I have a fantastic product marketing team. They do a tremendous amount of research on my behalf to help us figure out those unique pain points and benefits. That is the lifeblood of my campaign. Without them, it's another job that you have to do as a creative strategist. Now, not everyone has that luxury, but if you do have that luxury, definitely take advantage of it because they are going to give you a tremendous amount of information to start to build around. The second thing is, we have been using Runeth and and Motion's MCP, uh, deeply, and creative intelligence has been the backbone of how we've become successful. We integrate all the data from our creatives to figure out what is working and to analyze the data at scale. We bring it directly into Claude. We then push it to Notion so we have an intelligence database so that when we are actually building briefs moving forward, we already have all the data that we need about like messages that are working, angles that are working. And so we're not starting from zero. Like we have like a leg up on on ourselves because we don't have to start all over again. So pairing that, building a creative intelligence database inside of Notion so that you can call upon it at any point, um, has been critical. And then, yeah, just becoming best friends with your product marketing team. You should be working as closely with them as you do with designers, videographers, copywriters.

Eric Zaworski: That, that echoes completely internally how we, how we do things. So I showed a GitHub repo, but we effectively have a marketing operating system called Wispr Marketing OS. So ours is built on, uh, kind of the, um, on the Andre Karpathy methodology of like a second brain, except it's shared amongst our, uh, internal, like department so that if my boss, Matt, has some insights around how Google has gone two weeks ago, it's already inherently uploaded so that trends that are happening on one side of our, uh, ad spend can be picked up on another without having to, um, have a meeting about everything that we're all doing. You know, like on my side, as I said, you know, we're hopefully hitting four figures of new ads per month, but, you know, we're getting, we're getting close. But that just allows a team that can just get back to work. And that can only be done through, through a lot of these tools. So, yeah, I agree completely.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. So, we've spent a bunch of time talking about the measurement side, triangulation, and then the types of creatives that are running. A theme that's popped up over the last couple days, especially on the DTC side, is an emphasis on research, persona building, and understanding pain points as it relates to the consumer. So what I'm curious about on your guys' end is how you are approaching research and do you care about personas? Do you care about those pain points? Eric, you want to kick us off first with this one? Then we'll kick it to Josh.

Josh Levine: Yeah, I'm assuming this for these pillars is referencing the influence pillars that I was talking about. Um, is that what I'm seeing on screen? So, um, familiarity, trust, belief, affinity, preference, and action. For us, we don't really think about funnel-based. We think about you're either creating demand or you are capturing demand. You're only doing one of those two things. And for us, we are putting familiarity, affinity, and preference in demand creation. Someone knowing about your brand, preferring your brand, liking your brand, that is the demand creation. And then someone trusting your brand, believing in your product, and also taking an action to do something, that is capturing that demand.

Evan Lee: Huge. And then Eric on your side, how are you typically approaching like knocking down those silos across teams?

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tale as old as time, you know. Um, brand is, is everything. And it's kind of trendy to have people, especially in like B2B and tech especially, to suddenly adopt things like taste and brand as like their new concepts. But the reality is, every touchpoint your product shows up in the world is brand. And you, as the owner of the company, have no real say in how the audience reacts to what your brand is. You can do everything to try to communicate the mission and vision, the, uh, value proposition, everything like that. But ultimately, the audience is the one that decides what your brand is. And it's very important to have an honest look at that and understand how that fits in with every single touchpoint from someone hearing about Wispr for the first time in the world to landing on our website for the first time, to actually seeing an ad, to downloading, to onboarding, to using for the first time. Every single piece of this encompasses what people at scale think about our product. And it's something that we have many, many smart people, um, much smarter than me, uh, working on to try and reverse engineer all the time. And it's a very humbling thing. So, I would suggest that people who are kind of having that full funnel impetus and really trying to, to think about how they show up in the world is to not under or overweight any one thing. They're all very important to one person. And if they're important to one person, you can bet that there's a multiple amount of people behind them that value it just as much. So, you know, too more, I don't know.

Evan Lee: Guys, I love it. I love it. I love it. This has been incredibly helpful. Going through the Q&A, going through your presentations. Final question I have for both of you is if there's any final words you want to leave with our audience today. Josh, maybe you can kick us off.

Josh Levine: Yeah. Um, the one thing that I would say is what is true today isn't necessarily going to be true six months from now. Like this, this industry changes constantly. The playbook that I ran last year is entirely different than now. Um, it's only going to increase with the development of AI, obviously new algorithms like Andromeda has flipped Meta on its head. So, you know, just be a constant learner and student. Like I learn every day from other people like Eric and others in the industry. Um, so don't be afraid to, you know, challenge your own, uh, strong-held beliefs and keep attending these talks as well because like this is exactly how you push yourself as a strategist.

Eric Zaworski: I, I echo all of that completely. You know, one quote I'll leave you from, uh, Andrew Grove, "Only the paranoid survive." And, uh, that is very true in the marketing department. So, constantly try to make your skills better. That's not, that's not a, that's not an advice, that's a prescription. Like, as Josh said, my job today looks totally different from 18 months ago. If you told me I was looking at GitHub pushing, um, pull requests to my colleagues, I wouldn't have believed you, but here I am. I have Cursor open right now. So, constantly go to bat, be a student, and don't be afraid to look dumb.

Evan Lee: Dude, the best, guys. This is absolutely incredible. Everybody, show some love in the freaking chat. Blow it up with the emojis, blow it up with all the good vibes. Guys, sincerely appreciate your time.

Eric Zaworski: Thanks, y'all.

Evan Lee: Thank you. Thank you, Evan. There was a lot of chatter at the beginning of your presentation that said you need your own meditation app. People were like, the calming soothingness in the voice and setting the stage well, leading the way.

Eric Zaworski: Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Namaste, everyone. Thank you very much.

Evan Lee: Namaste. Namaste. And Josh, setting the tone right, giving everybody what they needed, talking about some of the hot takes of hooks versus holds. I feel like you guys crushed it. Everybody, let's show some love into the chat before we get into the Q&A, okay? Amazing, guys. Okay, so I've, I've seen a bunch of questions throughout the Q&A, um, and there's been a centralized theme around like both of you have built your careers to the point where you've been able to like see a lot that's happened and you're managing like monster budgets at large companies. But there's this question that's popping up. It's like if you both were to start again from zero with all this information that you've now generated at a new B2B SaaS company or B2B AI company, what would you do? So Josh, I'm going to kick it to you first and then Eric, you can pick that one up after.

Josh Levine: Yeah, it's a great question. Um, I just did this a year and a half ago when I joined Manychat. There was no creative strategy program. They were taking design assets that we had, putting them in the market, letting the market, uh, figure out what was working. And when I initially joined, I was running a playbook pre-Andromeda that was all about, we were doing like forced testing, creative sandboxing, forcing testing to get more learnings. And at this point, we run, um, similar to what I talked about earlier, which is archetype-based testing. So we'll take a variety of formats, we'll pair it with messages based on individual archetypes, and we care a lot less about targeting. We care more about figuring out what creative will actually work with what specific person. Um, and I think the biggest thing right now is trying to find creators that fit your MO, that fit your brand ethos, and trying to hit on those individual influence pillars. Like I said earlier, we're putting four out of every 10 impressions in market behind a whitelisted partnership ad. And then on top of that, we're also doing UGC dark-listed. So working with creators is table stakes at this point.

Eric Zaworski: Yeah, the first thing I would do is follow Josh on Instagram, man, because, uh, he's giving away a lot of the, a lot of the game. The reality is there's so many smart people who are straight up with, um, what we do as marketers. And, uh, I'd be remiss to not shout out a few people who I got put on, uh, early in my career, like Savannah Sanchez, Dara Gani, who are, you know, no strangers to the Motion, uh, community. Um, but you can learn all of this on YouTube University and the internet. And, uh, with tools now like, um, ChatGPT and Claude, you can genuinely build out models that help you do the repeatable tasks within your job, uh, more efficiency, uh, efficiently. AI is many things, and, um, just like Josh said, you know, we proudly do not have any AI swap in our ad manager account, and that's not a mistake. And, uh, what we do though is, you know, every single person at Wispr Flow is trying to 10X themselves with these tools. They are available for you right now on your computer, and I encourage everyone to, uh, learn about how they work for you, not for people who you are reading on Twitter yapping about making a million dollars in three weeks or some nonsense, but actually reverse engineer what you face at work every day and how more efficiently you can repeatedly do that through Claude, through ChatGPT. That is the number one unlock, and it is one I really scream to, uh, some creative folks who look at marketing as, rightly, a viable place for them to take their creativity into, uh, a new chapter of their career. So, that's what I would say.

Evan Lee: I, I